Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Please use this forum to discuss unfair terms & conditions used by bookmakers, e.g. no right to appeal against decisions, palpable errors, delays in paying out, refusing promised free bets, etc.
Jimmy Justice
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by Jimmy Justice » Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:11 am

You may have seen The Times sports section yesterday? If not, you can read a major article about J4P's work here: https://twitter.com/tonypaley/status/962264276462338049

Have we won; certainly not. Are we winning; don't know, but we're definitely moving in the right direction. Will there be a version of a minimum bet/liability rule; never been closer. Is it just about getting on; no.

JJ

mick
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by mick » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:00 pm

So good to see yet more media recognition for the excellent efforts made on our behalf by JFP.We also have a part to play so please ask all of your punting acquaintances to Reg as JFP supporters and consider actively participating.

Jimmy Justice
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by Jimmy Justice » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:06 am

Yes please and it is vital that EVERYONE submits to this: http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/n ... -open.aspx

Over the 1000 people provided evidence of injustice to the Competition and Markets Authority investigation, making a massive difference, you can do the same here.

The Gambling Commission are very keen to hear from consumers. We met with them last Friday and they are hoping to hear from as many consumers as possible. This is a superb chance to get a fairer deal when gambling on just about any aspects you can think of.

Please submit your thoughts to it and tell everyone else about it.

JJ

pelimies
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by pelimies » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:34 am

Is there an expert here who could confirm that following kind of general terms and conditions are not legally binding? This is a bookmaker called gamebet.com licensed by MGA. This bookmaker has my payout pending since 4.1 and I forwarded a complaint to MGA but am yet to be responded about the final outcome. Terms are like this: Unless otherwise stated, only one bet per sport event or match is allowed. Maximum stake per bet must be equal or smaller than the last deposit amount. Regarding first term I have never seen such a term anywhere else unless there is a bonus rollover involved so can that kind of term be valid and lead to voided bets? The second term sounds also criminal. Let us say if you deposited 100 euros and did a bet worth 80 euros with it leaving you 20 euros. If you then proceeded to make another deposit worth for example 200 euros would you be regarded as a «criminal» by doing a bet worth of 220 euros because you used the money left based on your previous deposit?

Jimmy Justice
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by Jimmy Justice » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:59 am

Thank you for your post.

As a general rule T&Cs have to be balanced and fair, not hidden and in language that is easily understandable for them to be legal.

Like you, I've never seen T&Cs like these two before for gambling, however that does not make them illegal. Certainly, both do seem strange for all sorts of reasons, so I would tend to use 'Resolver' or their ADR to challenge the company's decision (see the attached). You are looking for the latter to find for you, because there is no way you would be aware of something so strange without searching and reading for a long period of time.

JJ
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pelimies
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by pelimies » Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm

As a continuation to my gamebet issue I did some bets where I chose 1x, 2x or 12 but there was no bonus rollover going on anymore. I have only seen this kind of rules at other bookmakers when there has been bookmaker based bonus money involved. Speaking of the first rule would I be regarded as a "criminal" also by doing two bets worth of 50 euros each as opposed to one bet worth 100 euros let us say Ac Milan to beat Sampdoria during 90 minutes. That would not make sense at all. For me that sounds criminal bookmaker activity. Could the bookmaker be challenged that the term is not crystal clear? "One bet per match or market" can mean one outcome per match within bookmaker stake limits or one bet no matter how much that fills stake limit. Also if they meant that 1x, 2x or 12 are forbidden why so called double chance bets would be allowed meaning there is a market where one can choose 1x, 2x or 12 with one click.

Jimmy Justice
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by Jimmy Justice » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 am

As hinted, I think the T&Cs are unusual and likely would not stand-up in a court, but you don't want to be going down that line. From what you state, they are terms that contradict bets that are available on their site and thus can be implemented when the company wishes (or not), i.e. unfairly.

So, yes I would take the steps I outlined yesterday.

I hope that helps?

JJ

mick
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by mick » Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:56 am

When you look at the current T&C state of play any punter reading a bookmakers prior to opening an account might then feel reluctant to do so. ? Even those who do and also fully understand all of it including the possible implications still need to keep themselves up to date with future changes or additions. The vast majority of us will not do either and only discover the consequences to late when it costs us.

One of my gripes is the frequent changes to BOG terms which on Odds Checker are hidden behind the green bog buttons and on the ATR and RP sites not shown anywhere. Over the years i have often e mailed Odds Checker when as an example the bookmaker concerned changed from 24 - 7 to only from 8am on the day but the evening before his bog button was still being displayed.

Once again longer term customers of the bookmaker who where used to bog at any time would most likely only find out when being paid less than expected after there winner had drifted. Anyway i managed to get a few people involved who also bent Odds Checkers ear for being complacent in what could be viewed as deceitful behavior, and perhaps as a result they have now revamped there BOG presentation to give a clearer indication of when its available.

A small but imo important step forward and a good example of the possibilities for "encouraging" change if only we punters worked collectively more often.

Jimmy Justice
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by Jimmy Justice » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:46 am

It's all about 'chipping away' and it isn't easy, but it is very time consuming. I rarely mention my total time input as it's not about me, but think an average of 25 hours per week for over 4-years, completely unpaid, in fact it costs me money.

There has been progress, but it's very limited. In J4P's case I hope we've helped, but I would never claim there is direct evidence that J4P has helped at all. This is unlike some others, especially on the social responsbility front, who regularly claim they're 'marvellous' backed up by little evidence.

The fact still remains that winners or those who are deemed as future winners will get restricted, whereas 99% will lose (see Kenny Alexander, CEO GVC quote last week in the Lords), some of whom will get exploited.

J4P's original aim was for transparency in how a service is provided; we are a long way from that. Very few, if any, of the modern corporates have a business model that would survive 100% transparency, there are too many good punters out there now, along with the various 'traders'. I'm using that latter term in a polite way in order to encompass many approaches to 'gambling'.

mick
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Re: Do bookmakers use unfair terms and conditions?

Post by mick » Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:44 am

Jimmy Re your above : As you know better than most it is big and powerful dragons we dare to question and take on. Any progress is worth having and please do not sell yourself and J4P short in this respect because the good efforts you give are increasing the awareness of what remains a minority concern albeit an increasing one. Account closure via punitive restriction remains the biggest concern and to anyone reading this who is not currently affected i would say please take note because you could be next and its not a happy experience.

But there are so many additional matters with to name just two Spyware and OTT intrusive verification demands (when it suits) which should be of concern to us all. I thank you for the work you do and feel sure that many are thinking likewise, the trick will be to get us all working as one. ?

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