Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

This is the place to discuss abuse of your identity information by bookmakers. Why should you submit a 'selfie' of your passport page? Why should the quality of scans be refused when they are high quality? Why should the border around a scanned picture be so important? Etc.? Etc.?
Post Reply
Lives90
Supporter
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:15 pm

Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Lives90 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:49 pm

Hi all,

I'm curious about the source of wealth process and whether bookmakers are allowed to confiscate your funds, should they not be satisfied with your submitted documents.

Personally I have had funds effectively held ransom. I had provided the documents asked for, but they were initially declined. I then requested they just close my account and process my withdrawal but this was refused. Eventually, the threat of legal action magically made my documents 'satisfactory' and I got my money.

My question is, has there been any cases of this happening indefinitely? Bookmakers love to try it on, but can they really refuse to pay out from failing the source of wealth verification?

TIA

Jimmy Justice
Site Admin
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Jimmy Justice » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:00 am

Hi,

Thank you for your post.

Your experience is pretty common these days. It's a disgrace and the Gambling Commission and Competition and Markets Authority have supposed to have sorted it out. However, it will NEVER be sorted out unless these regulators start to fine gambling companies. It doesn't matter how many new guidelines are brought in if there are no sanctions the guidelines will be ineffective.

Your experience of submitting a court claim and then being paid says it all. Gambling companies know that in 99.8% of cases they can't keep a customer's money, so won't go to court.

Has anyone ever not been paid; loads of times, as people give up, especially if it's not a large amount of money to them personally. That's exactly what some (not all) of these companies want.

JJ

neywave
Supporter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:10 pm

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by neywave » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:42 pm

Hi,

Just out of interest, which bookie(s) did this happen to you with?

Lives90
Supporter
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:15 pm

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Lives90 » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:14 am

Cheers for the reply.

It makes me somewhat hesitant to bet large amounts with bookies as I'd rather not have to go through one of these processes again. I called the UKGC when I was stuck in the mentioned source of wealth situation, and they actually told me my funds are allowed to be withheld until the bookie is satisfied with my documentation. Couldn't believe it!

Just watched your 3 part interview, very interesting. You're doing a great job :)

Jimmy Justice
Site Admin
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Jimmy Justice » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:13 am

Re "which bookmaker". In our experience over the last three years I don't think there is a major bookmaker that hasn't withheld funds for no good reason. The problem is endemic. Basically, if a customer has money to withdraw there is a chance it may happen to them.

To be fair there are good reasons why it may happen, but in the main, it's just something to slow payment down in order to give people a chance to lose their money whilst waiting or a way to mess people about who they think have been pushing terms and conditions to their limit, e.g. taking advantage of promotions. If you don't like the latter, don't offer the promotions.

All the communication about anti-money laundering etc is just nonsense. The online bookmakers actually lobbied for sports betting not to be part of the latest laws and they won. This is an aspect of customer service that is really annoying, e.g. customer service staff are trained to lie, if a lie is convenient. If you're using casino products the law is a different matter.

Re our work - thank you for your kind comments. Your comment about not betting, therefore deposting in large amounts is sensible. Once money is deposited there is always a chance you're going to get major hassle, especially if you win. It's not a good advert for the gambling industry.

ams007
Supporter
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:06 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by ams007 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:51 pm

There seems to be conflicting information regarding AML legislation and bookmakers. I'm currently in a dispute with a bookie (I will go into this in further detail in a new post), and they have bombarded me with ridiculous assertions and allegations regarding AML.

So my question is this - are online bookmakers subject to AML legislation, yes or no?

Jimmy Justice
Site Admin
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Jimmy Justice » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:13 am

No, dependent on what you gamble on.

Even then it would depend on your betting levels and patterns. The only requirement for sports betting, unless a bet of 15K or more is placed, is that a bookmaker has a written plan in place making sure they have a process to follow if they suspect mony-laundering, terrorist financing or another crime. For some (many) bookmakers this means they have a 'plan' in place, but rarely use it unless somebody wins.

We have cases where customers have only deposited £300 where bookies aren't paying out claiming money laundering and others where 50-100K has been deposited where no checks have taken place.

It's a joke.

JJ

ams007
Supporter
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:06 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by ams007 » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:55 am

Thanks for the reply. Interesting.

The deposits totalled just £420.00, and my winnings amounted to £1679. The worst thing is they won't even release my original deposit, so in total the amount owed is £2099.

I did consider requesting them to close the account, as I understand they have to return any money in the account back to its source by law, but reading some of the other stories here, they can even refuse to do that.

They've tried to use AML against me, which is patently absurd (and I asked them by all mean to contact the authorities if they had evidence I was involved in criminal activity), now they are trying to use source of funding terms against me, which is also utter nonsense.

It's interesting that their original emails regarding ID verification asked for only driving licence/passport, credit/debit card statement OR utility bill. They also stipulated in the email that these documents were sufficient to withdraw money.

It's not until I actually went to withdraw the money that the form on their website demanded a bank statement showing deposits into their account. A direct contradiction to the emails they sent me.

Jimmy Justice
Site Admin
Posts: 839
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:16 am

Re: Source of wealth/Confiscation of funds

Post by Jimmy Justice » Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:52 am

You can now post without approval, so no delays.

I regularly communicate in private with people about these issues. Based on what you've oultined and nothing else your experience is classic of the endemic problem I referred to earlier. For whatever reason the bookmakers doesn't want to pay you and they are likely making reasons up as they go along. I usually recommend two things:

1. Report your experience to the Gambling Commission - they won't help you directly, but they do, on occasions, put companies under pressure to sort things out on the QT.
2. Edit the following and send it recorded delivery:

Your full address
Email address
Tel. No.
(insert name), CEO
(insert company)
(insert full address, including postcode)

Date

NB: If the company is based outside the UK you may want to use email? The same layout is fine.


Dear

Delayed payment of winnings

I have an online account with (insert company); username - (insert username).

I’ve tried to withdraw (some/all – delete as appropriate) of the money (insert exact amount if you wish), which is being withheld from me without good reason.

I’ve contacted your customer services on a number of occasions and they are very unhelpful. Nobody will tell me why I have to wait so long and why additional security checks are required. After over (insert period of time) I still don't know where my money is and what's going on. All your staff will tell me is that I have to be patient. Your staff have refused to provide a time frame and there list of excuses for not accepting proof of my identity is verging on the ridiculous.

(Insert any other relevant details of your case).

This situation is totally unacceptable and it is likely to be something the UK ‘Competition and Markets Authority’ investigation into unfair terms and conditions being used by online bookmakers and their application in practice is looking at closely. I will be complaining to them as part of their
evidence gathering, specifically naming your company.

I do hope you can ensure a quick resolution to this situation, if not, and if I have still not received my money in 14 days (from the date this letter was posted/email sent – enter date).

I’m also making a complaint to 'Resolver' today.

I look forward to hearing from you urgently or whoever you delegate the task to.


Yours sincerely,

(insert your name)
(insert your username)

I hope this helps?

JJ

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest